Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:05 It's like, I look at it like this. When I, when I say the standard of the gospel is reduced, right? Like the church, when you stand in front of a church, you could actually say, what is a disciple? The church wouldn't know how to answer that. Most churches don't even wouldn't even know how to answer the simple questions of the greatest mission we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be so in love with God knowing him and then partnering with him in the great commission. And that's what grease ups is where it's really just an ancient expression with a new logo, um, going in, you know, new wineskins, uh, going into the 21st century culture saying, Hey, let's do this ancient thing called, uh, succinct to find the name of God and raising up disciples. I mean, that's really all grease ops is, you know, I was sharing that with a group of people a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 00:00:52 Like if you look under the hood, we're just saying to find the name of God, that's all we're trying to do. You know, we're just putting new language to it and some different spins on it, you know, for, to attract guys into it. But, uh, you know, I look at like a Gordon Ramsey, you know, I love his show. A lot of people think he's a jerk, but he comes in, he makes over your kitchen. He, he does a whole new menu. He's very passionate about two things. One is fresh food. And the second thing is passionate about is that it's cooked, right? And so he's standing there in your kitchen and he's getting in your face, telling you why you stink at what you do. Cause these are things you need to hear, right? He's like the prophet he comes in. He's with you, he's laboring with you.
Speaker 1 00:01:31 He's investing his money into his time into you. You know, he's not just standing across the street, telling you how bad you are, you know, he comes in and then when you get that opening night and the place is full and your whole kitchen stressed out and he grabs that dish and he pulls the food apart and he's putting his finger in and it's all weird looking. He throws up against the wall cause he's, there's the stain in him because you miss the standard. And we need that in the church. I actually look at JC studies is that type of, um, your type of resource to the body of Christ. You know, you, you provide a sense of standard. You provide a sense of, um, Hey, let's not serve it that way that wasn't cooked well enough, you know, like it's like we missed some ingredients or there's some seasoning you guys could consider, you know? Like, and I just, I ate for that in the church culture, because it's like, when you hear the gospel, oh, it breaks my heart, man. You know? Cause there's, so I'm bringing that up in the context of God's anger, that stuff does anger him and
Speaker 2 00:02:36 Yeah. Yeah. And you're also bringing it up in the context of honoring God's sanctifying, his name being excellent. Absolutely because there's opportunity. Um, that's powerful stuff, Brian, and you know, I'm, I'm concerned that our culture is raising toddlers. And one thing about a toddlers, they don't like to be told no. And they get feelings hurt when somebody Crow, you know, GrubHub crosses the grain of their life, even for the good, um, here's a lesson. I know we need to wrap this up, but I think this will be really helpful. Uh, in, um, guys, humility, we talked about holiness, it's it? God is other than we're coming to him, he's come into our life, but we're coming to him on bended knee saying, speak, your servant is listening. You need to reveal yourself. You need to train me being my Gordon Ramsey. And I don't know about you, but that's the Lord speaks very directly to me.
Speaker 2 00:03:37 He doesn't pamper me or coddle me at all less and less and even less as I've gotten older in Jesus, he's just straightforward calling me out and telling me what needs to be done when it comes to repentance, turning from turning to. But here's a lesson I've learned about humility, Brian, and this kind of goes back to your two types of cultures in the church, right? One culture is telling you you're terrible and you don't measure up one. Culture is telling you, Hey, you're doing fine in Jesus. We've kept this all worked out. You realize those are the two sides of the coin of pride. Pride is thinking more of yourself or thinking less of yourself. What it has in common is you're thinking about yourself. That's right. The church has to be all eyes on Jesus. And what does he do? He introduces us to the father.
Speaker 2 00:04:32 And what does the father do? He gives us the spirit of Jesus and we live in this beautiful harmony of, um, being in the world, but not of it being the solution in the world. And together, back to back, we fight the good faith of fight of good, good fight of faith together. We fight back to back the good fight of faith. And that means, um, that we're United in the things that matter. And that's the gospel. Um, we're really, you know this cause I love this about you purge preach. We, we get to apply the victory of Jesus. The enemy is on the defense. From a kingdom perspective, we can lift people out of the pit of sin. We know that God can enter in and transform the hardest part and the most despairing life. And these are the things we hold on to. And these are the things that we pray and lean into and we work together for
Speaker 1 00:05:45 Well, I also wanted to, uh, at least, uh, read a verse or two out of the Romans passage that we we've carved out here. Um, and we kind of wrap this up, but, uh, just to kind of give us some, you know, you actually use the Bible to talk about this as well. Um, Romans one 18 through 32 was the, the passage we'd carved it out, but just to kind of share, uh, verse 18 says for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. And then verse 19 says for what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them. And it's really goes on. Um, I would encourage you to read those verses, but this gives a good picture of, for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness.
Speaker 1 00:06:48 And I love how in the tightest chapter, the Titus two of our culture, gray SOPs, it says for the grace of God, has appeared bringing salvation to all mankind and training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions. And to live there's three parts life. It's more powerful to live self-controlled to live upright and to live godly lives. So, um, I want the wrath of God to be not something I'm just fixated on, but I don't want it to be something I ignore. Or like you've said, James just categorize it as an old Testament character. Um, because when you talk about collapsing time, that is actually very brilliant. I mean, so brilliant because we have, you know, I actually use that analogy for people in the book of acts because people are get so infatuated with the signs and wonders in my life's not. So, you know, cause the book of acts kind of reads like, Hey, they woke up and they healed the guy by the gate every day and then afternoon, they went to Walmart and they, they told this guy to get out of his wheelchair.
Speaker 1 00:07:48 And then two days later they were over at this house raising the dead, you know, it's like, I'm like, that was a 30 year period of time. You know, I'm like, I'm like, so if you take your life as a believer and you take a 30 year cross section of it and you take the highlight reel because the book of acts is the it's the NFL highlight reel, right. Are watching in five, seven minutes. Every touchdown that happened that day. And that's what the book of acts is. It's like all the good stuff, a couple of the bad things. And I was like, but that's what you're saying to the whole Bible is that we have to realize the breadth and the length and the depth and the beauty of the story. And we fit into it very brilliantly and God is still doing signs and wonders even in the American church. You know, I've heard of that. God doesn't do that anymore or whatever, but go, Jesus go. Yeah. So what are, you know, what would you offer to the Romans passage on just some, some thoughts as we, as we wrap
Speaker 2 00:08:40 Couple of thoughts, Brian first, um, as the passage goes on, it keeps talking about how God's been showing grace, how he's been putting up with these things, which biblically speaking means he's right in the midst of it. Speaking words of life and words of hope revealing through creation. Um, I think that's really, really powerful that, that, that Paul kind of mimics the very thing we've been saying. We're kind of thinking more like him about God's long suffering. Think interestingly also there the new Testament, in my opinion, and the opinion of many scholars really witnesses to the fact that they thought that the second coming of Jesus was going to be right around the corner, but they had literally entered into the end times and that the history was going to be wrapped up. And it was a provoking kind of, you know, God's good. The wrath of God, ultimately biblically speaking means making settling all accounts where justice is meted out and everything is settled.
Speaker 2 00:09:44 Right. Um, and so it's interesting that even then he was saying, you know, it's, it's here and it's coming and we're reading the text 2000 years later, but by the same token, it doesn't mean that God's delayed it or he can't execute it. Um, or you slow as Peter says, no, no. I think in every generation we see the, we see manifestations of God's anger and here's, here's maybe something I think that might be just really important to me because I see so many people get caught up in end time scenarios and they all know that Jesus said, Hey, I don't even know when, but still they will shell out big money for books, videos, conferences, where somebody said, oh, but I know more Jesus because I figured it out, right? When a lot of people are using Jewish roots stuff, which really ticks me off because that's not why God gave the, the Hebraic connection to the church so they could figure out the time scenario.
Speaker 2 00:10:49 And I think people almost feel like they've satisfied some religious requirement. If they can figure it out or they have insight into it. What's more important is looking at the evidence in your culture of God's wrath, which is creates a deception and a delusion. The, and a delusion simply is that, which you have to deny your senses. You have to deny the facts. Um, Germany, Nazi Germany is a great illustration of this. You have a population that for one reason or another in a variety of ways bought into a huge lie and wound up killing a segment of their population, um, in the name of doing something right? So where what's happening in our culture, the better question then is this. The end day, end of time is to ask what is happening in our culture that is promoting death because God is a God of life.
Speaker 2 00:11:49 And I would say since 1970, we have done the unthinkable. We have made it legal to kill innocence in what should be the safest place on planet earth, their mother's womb. And yet it doesn't even get any press anymore. It doesn't get any talk about it any more, but their blood goes into the ground and cries out to God for justice. Does that make him angry? It's a rhetorical question. Will, will there come a time where you shuts it down? Brian, another thing that's happening in our culture. You know, we look at, we read the old Testament, okay. Here's another thing with the angry God scenario. Now I'll be brief. We've
Speaker 1 00:12:39 Got time. We've got time, man.
Speaker 2 00:12:43 Characterization ensconced in our thinking and in our psychology, um, where we felt, we feel self-righteous about dumping Israel, right? Because they were those stick neck, stiff neck people that can never get it. And God gave them a work salvation. They couldn't even do that and say the legalist. And, but you know, all these, all these gross lies about God and his people. And so we don't, we're not able to see ourselves reflected in the mirror of who they are. The very thing Paul told us we should be able to. And here's, here's a big one. We read about those people and we say, how stupid ignorant people, how could they offer their kids to model? How could they offer their flesh and blood to two idols that burnt with fire and consume their children? How could they do that?
Speaker 1 00:13:39 We're doing the same thing. The current day molec is planned parenthood. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:13:45 And it's going further. Now it's a perverse agenda in grade school that is completely messing with their minds, things that were, we would always take for granted, you are what your equipment says you are. Um, this is the way sexuality is expressed in healthy boundaries. Um, all of that is being stood on its head and taught the opposite. So we're still offering our young people to Moloch, to be owl. And we're no better than the people we judge and we can't even see it in the mirror. Um, and, and I would say we're ripe for judgment as a country. I think that I think church Inc is complicit in that because they're not offering a solution amidst the problem. And I think you can make a case for, with when God withdraws his presence. He gives us over to our ourselves and we, we, we love to act on delusions. We're easily duped. We are. So we're foils for lies. We're suckers, the human race soccers. When you put it in the perspective of, of a malevolent, malevolent, evil that manipulates us to destroy ourselves in one another, by the simplicity of lies.
Speaker 3 00:15:07 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:09 So I think rather than trying to figure out the end times and giving ourselves a pat on the back, we need to discern our times
Speaker 1 00:15:19 And how God's calling us to honor him. And, um, I figured that out, we're supposed to be when he does return. You know, this is the greatest thing you guys taught me was one of the greatest things was he's supposed to find us busy at work and loving him. And in, in, in, in cherishing the Greek commission, you know, it's like in the great commission, there's this beautiful thing called, teach them everything, teach them to obey everything I commanded, you know, it's like, so even there, that's right there in the new Testament, there's the commands of Christ. You know? So it's like the Torah, isn't the only place of the Bible that has commands. And, uh, you know, it, it, it, it brings it in. And so, you know, I learned this from you a couple of years ago, uh, about, so looking at God's wrath that God's wrath is against everything that's related to death, correct.
Speaker 1 00:16:16 God's wrath is, is, is his wrath in, although he's long suffering, his anger will be there for a long period of time. And he's going to try to be purging these things out. But when his wrath comes, he's going to deal with the death and the darkness that we allowed to pervade that his anger didn't stop us. We did, we, we missed the caution signs of his anger. Now, therefore his wrath is coming and even in his wrath there's hope. And, uh, because right here in Romans 1 21, and we could probably use this as a, a framework to kind of land the plane here, but it says for, although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. And I don't want to just read about that enrollments wanting to go, yeah, boy, those people enrollments one, man, there, there, those were some dumb people because you know what, and I don't mean this in a derogatory sense towards myself and I'm not trying to provoke guilt and shame and any believer out there, but I'm the dumb person.
Speaker 1 00:17:29 I'm the few tile thinker. I'm the one who has a foolish darkened heart because I've been around the things of God for so long. And if I miss the fact that I'm supposed to be possessing the Bible, right, like not just knowing intellectual things. Um, and I, I'm trying to say this as balanced as I possibly can, but I, I get it like, man, God, what what's in my, you know, what's an hour times, not the end times, but what's in our times right now where your anger is against. And it's warning me of things that I'm just blowing. I'm just scrolling past on my social media feeds, you know, it's, you know, what am I, how can I stop and hear what the spirit of sane hear that prophetic voice of the spirit and, and have a tenderized heart because, and that's the heart of our gray SOPs culture is that we would literally honor God, which I, I compare that to Jesus's language of Halloween, the name of God sanctifying, the name is all rooted in honor, right.
Speaker 1 00:18:35 That we would honor him and that we would be sober-minded through his anger and wrath of like going there's things. There are things of death and things of darkness that our father in heaven really doesn't like for me to partake in because of what it does to me and to him and our relationship. And it's forbidden. It's not for me, it's not for me. You know? And so it's just, I don't know. I need a huge dose of what we're talking about. I mean, I'm, I hate thinking that I've arrived or, you know, I've got this stuff mastered and I'm, and I'm also not afraid of God in the area where I think he's just a hundred percent against me every day. I think he's so for me, every day, that's the dangerous part,
Speaker 2 00:19:22 You know,
Speaker 1 00:19:22 He's for me and I've gotta be for him and not for me,
Speaker 2 00:19:26 Well said for me,
Speaker 1 00:19:28 I can use his grace and perverted ways
Speaker 2 00:19:31 And you can see how the testaments connect and the reason we need a robust understanding with Jesus as our interpreter, particularly of the five books of Moses, because life and death is the theme of Leviticus. And it is also, it trickles down to purity it, the pure and the impure, which goes back to Jesus, talking about what's going on in our heart because purity breeds life and life breeds life. And even as you said, God's judgment is meant to bring to life. Or his wrath is meant to silence death so that life can abound. Um, you know, uh, I'll give a little shout out to Dwight prior my mentor, yours as well, met Dwight and interfaced with them before he left earth way too soon. But he would, he would, he would put it in a word. The word is faithful. The one Jesus, Jesus taught us to call is faithful. So faithful that Jesus could be faithful even to death on a cross. And now in Jesus, by the presence and power of his spirit, our call is to be faithful and Muna the word, the Hebrew word for, and it has more to do with faithfulness. It's that trust and obey that are both embedded in it. He's faithful. So be faithful. Um, there's your honor principle. And there is, you know, that's, I think that's my final word on, sorry. That's our signing off.
Speaker 1 00:21:08 Well, um, I love you a bunch. I'm indebted to you. I, I partnered with your ministry. I would encourage other people to partner with JC studies. You guys have powerful resources and I have no problem investing my funds to, uh, support you guys. And <inaudible>, we'll do the same. We'll pour money into your stuff. We, I love you love your resources and you stay encouraged as well, because I know that you labor in a very small lane of people in this country that actually do what you do. Um, and, and stay the course, man, cause we need your voice and we need your views. We need JC studies and you've done brilliant work, man. I just want to encourage you. You know, I watched you, uh, cause I knew you went to white and I watched you step in, you know, at the shocking time when you're like you said way too soon, no one was anticipating that. And I've watched these step in and actually do very brilliant things with this thing, man. So stay the course and be encouraged today. Thank
Speaker 2 00:22:09 You so much, pastor. And the door swings both ways. Love you, Christie, the family, the congregation there and what you're doing in grace, grace ops, um, there, uh, a Hebrew scholar, uh, he was a Pentecostal. So he called himself an oxymoron, but dependable practical scholar in Jerusalem. Um, uh, Robert Lindsay used to say, when you say men, it's the equivalent of saying, go, Jesus, go. So brothers to who you are and all that, you do a man.
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Amen. Well, Hey to the grease offs culture, we love all of you. And until next time live upright, <inaudible>.
