Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:08 A man's gift makes room for him and brings him before the great Proverbs 18, welcome to the Grace House podcast. Today. I'm excited to be here in the studio with my friend and guest, Dr. David Robinson, where we're on this podcast and the passion of this podcast is where we learn and discuss biblical masculinity, that results in effective leadership to impact your fears of influence. So we are here today to empower you and to motivate you and to equip you in a powerful way to understand specifically today, we want to kind of talk about how your gift makes room for you in, in boy, it's a really powerful thing because it's connected to your purpose. And we're going to get into that in a few moments. But Dr. David Robinson is with me and he wrote a lot of great books, but one of them that I've been digging into and I really can't put down is called the abominable snowman and it's God's gift of apostolic leadership to the church. So it's a gift. And we want to talk about these gifts, uh, kind of expand them out a little bit today, but this book David is incredible. I mean, this is an incredible book. I'm blessed to have it in my life, and I'm glad you wrote it. And I'm actually glad to be your friend and get to know you. And it's awesome having you as a guest on this show. So tell us why you wrote the book and kind of give us a little promotion about what it is.
Speaker 0 00:01:37 Uh, Brian's always good to be with you and, uh, share in the life of the next generation. Um, I know that I, social security checks will keep coming. Uh, if young men like you or stay faithful, um, I wrote the book, uh, probably three or four years ago as a result of not knowing really why the church has lost its ability to be really salt and light in the marketplace. What I call the frontline battle work happens every day, 90% of God's people go to the front lines every day and they serve, uh, out there. And, um, I said, Lord, why are we not effective? And, um, I have studied for years, Ephesians four called the Ascension gifts. When Christ went back to heaven, he says he gave gifts to mankind. Doesn't say he gave gifts to saved people. Doesn't say he gave gifts to church people. It just says he gave gifts to mankind. And when God gave you life, he gave you a gift. And I believe that, um, every person that God gave life to has one of those five gifts in Ephesians four. Now I was raised in a church. You believe every person has a,
Speaker 1 00:03:09 One of the essential gifts? Absolutely. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:03:12 And, um, it may not be a capital a, I mean, you don't have to be a titled pastor, pastor in a church to have a pastoral gift. Yeah. You can always see people who care about other people. Uh, they're concerned about them. Uh, they're always gathering people, looking at their knee. They have a pastor on staff
Speaker 1 00:03:35 And it's a nurturing, caring kind, uh, shepherding. And it can be anywhere, anywhere, customer service reps, absolutely. Those types of, uh,
Speaker 0 00:03:47 Make the best customer service reps or people who have a pastoral care.
Speaker 1 00:03:51 Th they help people emotionally feel like they'd been seen and heard absolutely a valuable gift. It is very valuable.
Speaker 0 00:04:01 And, um, you know, I was challenged right away by, you know, those who, uh, are the resident theologians, you know, they're everywhere. Um, I was raised in a very traditional, uh, religious setting. My dad was a pastor grandfathers, both sides of my family. And so I went to Bible school, graduate school. I, I knew what I had been taught that there's only a certain few people who have those gifts. It's called a five fold gift ministry. And, and so only a few. And so, as I was studying Ephesians, the Lord said, I didn't write Ephesians just to church leaders. I wrote Ephesians to the church at Ephesus. He said, read chapter one, verse one to the faithful saints at emphasis. So everything happens after chapter one, verse one is for everyone who's in the church, the believers, so that when you get to Ephesians four, verse one, what were they in the vocation wherein you are called?
Speaker 0 00:05:06 That means everybody's called to something. Everybody has a ministry. And um, why would God not give a gift to everyone who has a call to ministry? Right? Cause I'd been taught that there's only a certain few in Ephesians four, 11 to 16. They get those guests, any gave some to be apostles, some prophets, pastors, teachers evangelists. Well, the Lord showed me one day. He said, I wrote the book of Ephesians to the whole church. In fact, Ephesians is what's called a cyclical book, which means it wasn't just to the church at emphasis. It was to all the churches of Asia. It made its cycle. It made its way around all the churches. He said, when you get to chapter four, verses 11 to 16, picture the whole church at Ephesus. And he gave some of them this gift, some that gift, some another gift. And as I said earlier, you don't have to be a resident profit.
Speaker 0 00:06:13 You don't have to be a member of the school, the profits to have a prophetic gift. God has simply given you a gift to be able to discern, to be able to see and to be able to bring that to the body of Christ. And it worked that way with all of them. And that's why the Lord said every local fellowship has to have all five gifts in operation in the right order with mature people. Now you can be intellectually mature. You can know that Bible from cover to cover, but if you're an emotional midget, then you're going to use your gift to create a lot of problems. And so those that have a Napa systolic gifting and a prophetic gifting, they can get people in trouble really fast, but so can those who have a pastoral gifting, if they're not careful, and if they're not serving under a strong, mature episodic gift, they'll begin to tolerate sin far too long in the lives of people, because that pastoral gift wants to protect, wants to, you know, well, they'll get better.
Speaker 0 00:07:22 Let's not, you know, know that profits going to step up and say, Oh no, they need, you know, and so it takes all five gifts and that's why, um, I said, Lord, why is the church not being effective in the marketplace on the front lines of battle? You don't have to be a road scholar to see that the church in America is under vicious attack. It's losing, uh, w you know, we used to be celebrated 50 years ago when I was a kid. Uh, you couldn't run for dog catcher if you didn't, you know, go to a church somewhere, if you weren't a member of a church somewhere. Well, today that's almost a negative. Yeah. And so we've reversed church pastors in this today's culture are looked at the same exact way as a used car salesman. Many of them live up to that reputation, sadly.
Speaker 0 00:08:18 Oh, that's a good one. I mean, yeah. I mean, maybe we deserve it, right. Well, I'm afraid. So, uh, you know, when, when you use manipulation instead of EMF inspiration, um, then, uh, the gift is out of bounds. And so, uh, the local assembly, the local church family, if they have any other gift other than the episodic gift in a senior position, you're going to get the weaknesses of that gift, the same as the strengths of that gift, right? So if you have a pastor in senior position, the people are going to be well cared for, but they could be false doctrine. They could be tolerating, sin naked. You know,
Speaker 1 00:09:00 Now you, you point out in your book, which I, I would encourage everybody to get it. You can get it on Amazon, the abominable snowman. And it's not just about the episodic leadership gift. I love the foundation of how you, how you wrote this book, because what we're really going after is the influence of the people of God, the church in the marketplace, where I don't know if you'd say 80% or more of life happens. I mean, that Jesus was very passionate about the marketplace. The marketplace is where we work, where we move, you know, on our last podcast, we talked about the three Gates, you know, business government and education, our marketplace. What were the,
Speaker 0 00:09:44 Those are the three Gates that make up the marketplace. Uh, government controls everything through laws or regulations, uh, business people that God has gifted to create wealth. They pay for everything. And the educational institutions determine the values, philosophy, worldview that both the business people and the government people use. So that's where the battle takes place.
Speaker 1 00:10:06 We've built the you're, you're not creating something new saying, Hey, go, you go use your gift and bypass the people of God or the church. And the church is us. It's not the buildings, but you know, you're not saying bypass God's intentions and go do, go do it another way. You're saying, Hey, this is it. Because man, this book is really awesome. Cause you, you, you bring up all the hot topics and the debates and the tensions, but you don't really get lost in it. You, you, you keep the focal point on the heart and the, the origins of why God built it. And that's the only way it can get better is to actually be restored to what it was meant to be. And I really like how you're doing that with the book that inspires me. I was up, I don't, I don't just dig into books all the time, but I was up for two, three hours last night, really excited about what I was reading. And can't wait to finish the book off, but I like how you're saying this. So as far as the, this is an interesting thing. So like how, how so we're talking about, and we're probably gonna do more podcasts than just today's on this. Cause this is I'd actually would like to go through the book a little bit more thoroughly, but you say the Ascension gifts of Ephesians four come from Christ. And then we've got the gifts from the Holy spirit in Corinthians
Speaker 0 00:11:24 First Corinthians 12, Romans 12. And
Speaker 1 00:11:26 You're saying that they worked together. So why don't we talk about that a little bit and then really kind of like, how does someone even know what kind of gifts they have? Like, what would they do? You know, but what are these gifts and how do they work together?
Speaker 0 00:11:41 How do you know if you have a gift, um, it's someone who has the gift that you have, but they're mature in that gift. Um, and so that's the best way to really understand what gift that God has given to you. And that's one of the key values of belonging to a local assembly. You know, the Bible is very clear for sake, not the assembling of yourselves together. The purpose of that local church family, uh, is many reasons. One is fellowship. One is corporate worship. One is teaching, developing training. You know, you learn to be a disciple in that local church family. You learn to submit to authority, you learn to grow and, and develop. And so
Speaker 1 00:12:32 30 is actually the very, to me, that's like the bullseye of discipleship absolutely. Is that we are helping you mature and grow, right? Your gift. You can be gifted and make all kinds of mistakes in your character or assumptions or, um, cause it, cause I'm away. I'm way more tempered now than I was when I was 20, you know, but I've also gotten my tail kicked and, and, you know, saw some things play out and you learn, you know, and you grow, you have people help you.
Speaker 0 00:13:00 Absolutely. And that's, that's the purpose of the local church. See it, you know, people have attended churches for years. I did. And uh, you know, they call me pastor for 40 years. Um, but never did they really understand how God gifted him? You know, I was called pastor for 25 years before I finally began to realize, you know, Lord, I don't have a pastoral gift. In fact, there are days I don't even like these people, to be honest with you. I mean, people, uh, I mean I would sit and listen to their problems for eight hours, not going home and tell my wife. I said, you know, these people are wearing me out. I said, I know they have problems, but I mean, uh, they're not faithful. So they don't, you know, they don't listen to the teaching. I provide for them every week they come and go, they don't enter into praise and worship.
Speaker 0 00:13:52 So, you know, I mean, uh, you know, get with the program a little bit and I wouldn't have to, you know, baby along so much. So I, Brian, I learned the hard way. I finally, I said, Lord, what's the answer here? He said, well for you, I didn't call you to be a pastor. I said, you did. I said, that's what they call me. That's what my dad was. My grandfather. He said, no, I gave you a gift and it wasn't a pastor. Okay. You know how to pastor people, I call it the hatch match and dispatch, you know, I mean, I know how to dedicate babies and do weddings and do funerals and everything else in between. But he said, I've called you and gifted you as an episodic leader. And he said, if you'll notice wherever I've sent you, there's always issues that needed to be dealt with.
Speaker 0 00:14:40 And you dealt with them. He said that, and you were energized by that. He said, so cut the counseling. Let those who have a pastoral gift. Let those who gifted to help people. And he said, if they want to see you, haven't come, go to the alter for an hour. And tell me everything. They're going to tell you for one hour or don't see them now. I'm not advocating it for everybody. I'm just saying for me, it cut my counseling load by 80, 90%. Right. And, uh, and so I learned what gift I had. I think we really would help our young people if by the time they graduated from high school, especially if they're a church, young person, if they've sat in church and heard the word by the time they're a high school senior, they ought to know how God gifted them because their further education should be based on that. Gifting. If somebody is a gifted evangelist, then they belong in sales and marketing, not taking an engineering degree because dads,
Speaker 1 00:15:48 Right. And this goes to, it goes to the point of winning in the marketplace, which, which, why does that matter so much? Why, why, why does the fact that the church has been kind of has really sucked at it for all these, you know, how many decades and we're losing ground. Why talk about your passion on why that matters? Why does the marketplace matter?
Speaker 0 00:16:07 Well, our purpose for God's people, there's a difference between the purpose of God's people and the commission that God gave to the church in the new Testament, Matthew 28, the purpose of God's people is very clear in Genesis 22, 17, 24 60. He was giving the blessing to Abraham in 22 verse, servant 17. And he showed him the stars of the sky, sand of the sea. And he said the very last phrase, here's the reason why I'm giving you all of these children for you to possess the gate of your enemy. Well, a generation later in chapter 24, verse 60 Rebecca now is getting ready to go back to be the son of Abraham Isaac. And the last thing her family said to her was may your children meet thousands of tens of thousands of may. They possess the Gates of their enemy, um, or those who hate them.
Speaker 0 00:17:04 He said, now compare that to Matthew 16, verse 18, Jesus was talking that day and he said, I'll build my church. I don't need your help to build the church. I'll do that. And then when I do it, the Gates of hell will not prevail against the church. He wasn't talking about some structure, some wooden Gates or iron Gates or some fortress. What he was talking about, the influence of hell will not prevail against the church. White. Again, you can see in America that the Gates of hell, the influence of hell is prevailing in America and most places around the world. And so to stop that God's people must understand their purpose. Our purpose is not to bow down to the enemy in business, government or education are the purpose of God's people is to be the example of Christ, to where people that see us on a daily basis.
Speaker 0 00:18:06 And even the text says, they'll ask you why is there such hope in you? And you'll be able to share with them. The reason I have hope today is because Christ lives within me. Ah, you know, I tell Christians all the time, do the unbelievers that see you and touch your life and cross your pathway. Do they, do they want to love their wife and family? The way you love yours? Do they want to take care of the resources in their life? The way you take care of the resources in your life? See winning people to Christ is more about warming them to who Christ is in you before you challenge them about their lifestyle. And so let's understand what our purpose is. And our purpose is to control those places of influence. You know, Matthew 28 talks about making disciples of all nations. It doesn't talk about making disciples of people and talks about nations.
Speaker 0 00:19:12 You know, and this thing all gets wrapped up in revelation. It says the nations, every nation shall bring its light into the glory of heaven, into the light of lights, nations. And as much as there is a move across the world today to do away with borders and to do away with nations. So we were all be one big blended family. That's an attack of the enemy to divide this world so that he, the antichrist can come and roll in rain. Well, no, we're going to see the church one day disciple an entire nation. If one person can be one to Christ, why can't and an entire nation, they won to Christ. I believe it can. And I believe God's wants to line his people up and so empower them. So they all see when they go to the marketplace, how their gift works there to same as it works inside the church, serving the family.
Speaker 1 00:20:18 Yeah. And I, I love how you write about purpose and it's connected the purpose and your gift is connected to the body of Christ in the great commission. And I love it because it's like, this is, God's a plan. Like God has a way to win and to conquer and to, to take dominion and take these Gates. And Jesus is even saying, these Gates of hell will not prevail against you. Just taught that last night in a youth small group, you know, the exact same freeze and it's the exact same scripture, but there's, there's this plan, this strategy that God has. And he doesn't, he didn't make an a B plan, you know? So I tell people all the time, believers that if we cooperate with what God designed, we're hastening the day, right? We're, we're actually speeding the timeline up. And then when we're stiff-necked or we're, we're not cooperating with the design, God has established we're, we're delaying, you know, we're delaying the game.
Speaker 1 00:21:21 So we're actually, there's a lot of like little factors playing out, you know, in this entire, you know, so I want to, I want, I want the gray SOPs to impact this nation. I want to disciple the nation. I'm in, let's go, right? Like you can pour into me and I'll take, take what you have. And you can pour into whatever college or school or facility, whatever kind of like framework we build out for training, uh, warriors. But that's, we've got to take this ground. We've got to take this land. And I want this nation. I want to see this nation discipled.
Speaker 0 00:21:53 I call it being patch domination. One of David's mighty men being patched. Dominic. He defended that bean patch.
Speaker 1 00:22:04 Yes. The field of lentils. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:22:07 He defended that Shama, right? Yes. One of David's mighty men. That was his ground that he wasn't going to surrender. And so everyone who's listening to us today. They have a bean patch. If you will, to which God has assigned them. So don't worry about what the enemy's doing in somebody else's bean patch take care of yours, make Christ King, where you are. Right. That's why, when I walk into a Walmart, I bow my head at the steering wheel. It is now become a way of life for me. And I say, devil, even, you know, I don't care if you've been here all day, all night, I'm here now. And wherever I put my foot, the Bible says, made the promise to Joshua, wherever you put your foot down, belongs to you. I said, now you didn't create this earth. My God created this earth belongs to him and the fullness thereof. So I'm going into Walmart. Now. I'm here on official business or something that I need, but I'm open for divine appointments all the time. So you, uh, you have to bow down to me now. You're not going to act up, act out while I'm in Walmart. I'm in charge now because God put me in charge. Ryan went
Speaker 1 00:23:30 The Gates of hell. Won't prevail, right? It's a mindset.
Speaker 0 00:23:34 Oh, your mindset. It has to be exactly a warrior mindset. I mean, why would a vision back to Ephesians vision six is all about, well, most of it is getting dressed for war, right? If we never go to war, what do we need? All of the implements, a battle. You know, I've heard people saying over the years, I'm going to the enemy's camp and take back what the devil stole for me. Right? You heard that song. And so when I go to a church and speak all, you know, as God leads me, I'll say, how many have ever sung that song? Maybe you sing it here. Let me ask you, when was the last time you went to the enemy's camp and what did you bring back? Right? It has to be that intentional live the song. If we can, uh, you know, I don't, I don't have a pie in the sky. Christianity. I have a walking around relationship with Jesus Christ, right. And when I was threatened by gang bangers in the city of Chicago, I had two death threats on me. And they said, well, you do, if you, if, if I drop you right where you are, I said, well, for me, it's hello, Jesus. If somebody drops you right where you are, who you going to say hello to? Right? So don't threaten me with heaven, right? That's right. You know, it has to be that intentional.
Speaker 1 00:24:57 It's interesting that you bring up, uh, we bring up, we talked about Shama and he's just six, because those are very connected. Yes. No, those are very connected. Cause Shama, it says when the enemy came in, he saw, um, all of Israel says fled from the field. Right? All of them, except for one person in there. And I think this goes into the giftings and the, the, the, the design, that warrior mindset, because he could see the purpose of the people of God was not to run. And even though all Israel flood, he had the, the understanding and the faith in the boldness to say, Hey, I'd rather die than run like a coward. And so God is going down right now, either I'm going to stand here and win, and you're going to come through me and do a mighty work, or I'll be seeing you in a few moments.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 So there's a, and there's a same passion in me. She's fusion six that when you've done everything you can do stand well, standing is hard. I mean, just to physically stand for a long period of time is hard on your feet, your blood pressure. I'll, I mean, it's actually a tough thing to do, but you can stand well, when you understand your purpose and you understand your gifts and you understand your skills because that's the journey I've been on. I've had HighQ quality, caliber coaches and leaders like you. Uh, when they hear the story, they say, Oh, well probably 99% or more would flee and leave and quit. You know, why didn't you do that? You know, you got a great story. Now, you got all this great God stuff happening in success. And I just tell him, cause I knew I was supposed to stay.
Speaker 1 00:26:36 I knew I couldn't run. Cause I knew my purpose. I knew why I went into it. And so when the hard came, some of the most hardest, hardest circumstances that most people can endure, must be burning with wire during Durer. I stayed through all of it and I looked like a crazy guy, but I don't look crazy now. But I looked crazy then because I knew my purpose. I knew what was God, God was calling me to do. Now this concept of the gifts we're gonna, we're gonna do more podcasts on this. We're not gonna unleash it all in one, because we could do that in about five hours probably, but we'll break it up. So the Ascension gifts, let's go through those until talk about why you think every person has one of them and how would they discover what it is?
Speaker 0 00:27:24 Ephesians. First of all, was written to the church. That means all the saints that were in the church at Ephesus heard the message that Paul gave. And so they're called Ascension guests because when Jesus ascended to heaven, when he went back to the father, he gave gifts to mankind and he gave some to have an episodic gift, some to have a prophetic gifts, some to have a teaching gift, some to have a pastoral gift and some to have evangelists gift. This is not, uh, something that people should fear, but it's something they should embrace. And even though that we may have missed Todd at some through the years, um, the bias of some people shouldn't keep us from the truth. We need to understand that if God gave you life and he's the only one that can, he gave you a gift, he gave you a temperament.
Speaker 0 00:28:35 He gave you a personality through which you will deliver that gift. And so let's establish that there's no separate group of people that received a gift. And then everybody else has to go do their thing without a gift. We have to establish that. Now, how do you discover your gift? Well, the same way that you discover anything else about your life, you have to be taught. You have to be exposed to the truth. And then as Christians, the reason that he feels all of us with the Holy spirit is so that we can judge for ourselves through the power of the resident. Holy spirit, within us, the truth that's coming to us. Paul even told the Berean, Christians, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself. So I encourage everyone check out. But if there are certain indicators that somebody has a, uh, you know, a particular gift, if you're constantly correcting people, you're constantly seeing things wrong. You probably lean toward having a prophetic gift or you care about people. Not that the prophetically gifted people don't care, but there's always a default position. If given the opportunity, you're going to default back to one of these particular gifts and it's up to the local church to help people discover those. Uh, and um, but we have to get over the fact that only a select people, our group, people got one, we all receive one because he promised and I gave some.
Speaker 1 00:30:11 Yeah. And I think that you just described one of the obstacles that face, you know, you bring that up in your book. You, this is an obstacle, this, uh, secular sacred thing that was created because it, it just absolutely breaks my heart. It, this kind of stuff, you know, we're talking about. So salvation without responsibility equals cheap grace. That's what I, that's what I say. That when I start to look at the responsibility of what we're responsible for in the standards of what we're supposed to keep things at, as far as the integrity of the scriptures and the power and the purpose of the people of God, I, this grieves my heart, this cause, and you, you actually identify it. We don't have to go deep into it, but you identify this 1700 years of a system that was introduced by Constantine and how it actually has worked to, um, you know, kind of cripple the church all these centuries. And it's not that nothing good ever happened. And I mean, you, you make me laugh, man. Cause you put in your book, you put in your book that a truly gifted pastor shouldn't even be leading a church. What the heck do you mean by that? Right. Like I understand it, but I want our CHRO. I want this podcast to understand this audience.
Speaker 0 00:31:31 What I'm talking about is a person who has a title of pastor has a real Holy spirit gift of pastoring.
Speaker 1 00:31:40 That's his distinction, right?
Speaker 0 00:31:42 The Ascension give he, he, he is a shepherd. He is a pastor. Um, that person should not be in a senior position. Now. I don't, you know, titles that, that word, pastor, that title pastors, more of a term of endearment than it is a function most of the time. Right? But it's, it's those people who, when they have the call and the gift of pastoring, they're going to be frustrated because they're not going to have the right gift to deal with all the other issues that only someone with an apostolic gift can help them with. It's not that the episodic gift is better than the others. The episodic gifts should be the servant to the other four gifts. The rate, the title, the abominable snowman came one night after I'd written. The, and a few of my friends were sitting around talking about the book. It just came up in my spirit. And I said, you know, if you truly have an episodic gift, you're like the abominable snowman you're rarely seen, but your footprints are everywhere. And so maybe in a future podcast, we can get in how God helped me to illustrate those five gifts in the old Testament tabernacle, because for every new Testament truth, there's an old Testament type.
Speaker 1 00:33:04 Yeah. And I think, I think we will dedicate a few more of these podcasts because right now we're just talking about really introductory type stuff of the gifts, the Ascension gifts. And I really liked how you put it that way. I've never even really kind of heard it packaged that way. And I'm sure it has been done. I just haven't heard it. And it really was refreshing for me to see in that context to see it like, cause yeah, Ephesians four, five fold. I mean, you get it right. Even when you just start saying those words, there's all kinds of cross sections of like believers. That, that means different things to them. You know, it's like these are hot topics and it's not about trying to say, Hey, we came up with the best idea of the best version of this. You're you're like, Hey, you know, cut the chase.
Speaker 1 00:33:47 Let's just do the work of what we're called to do. Let's get back to the function of this and why it's really there. Stop trying to win the greatest definition of award, you know, but it's like the apostolic. And I understand it. I was first told that I was like an apostle 20 some years ago. And it was, uh, I stayed in this guy's house in the basement as a missionary guest. And he said, you know, missionaries, he actually, I was kind of aching in front of him and like, ah, this ranting, you know, and he came to me and he said, well, you know, you're, you're an episodic leader. I don't know if you know that or not. You're, you're an apostle. And I said, I was the only like, uh, I was probably late twenties and I'm like, I'm what? And he's he started to describe the systolic.
Speaker 1 00:34:32 And I said, Oh, well, that all makes sense to me. That part. And I started that. That was the first time I'd ever in. It explained a lot of like my own wiring and how ha how I work and things. So it really helped me. But when for me, I have understood it enough. I've been a younger guy most, you know, in my thirties, you know, and now I'm in my forties, but it's, but to be, to think of myself as a father, to even an older guy, you know, that it wasn't really about age. It was about the purpose and the gift and the nurturing. And in not that I did it very well, but it just knowing that I could father, that was part of my heart. I've always been like that. Right. So it's like, that's how I raise people up. So it's like, there's a lot.
Speaker 1 00:35:16 It's like my daughters, I have four daughters and, and men, you want to talk about someone that will tear you down. If you, if you threatened them, I'll, you'll deal with me quick. But you know, I will, I also love them, but I also don't fluff them up. You know, I make them face life. I make them grow. I help them through their battles and their struggles. And that's what I, how I raise up, you know, I fathered them, you know, it's like, it's, it's a, it's a really cool thing. And I don't know, I just, how does a person, I just love this idea of the Ascension gifts. And then we can get into the first Corinthians gifts on another, on another talk, but they all kind of link together and leverage, this is kind of the word you use. They leverage the Ascension gifts.
Speaker 1 00:35:57 So what would someone, how would someone know? Like what, what was, what is some of your thoughts on like, how do, how would I know if I'm at systolic or prophetic because I'm, it grieves me that we broke down this whole concept and made church hierarchy, you know, from Constantine, this whole hierarchy thing got introduced that wasn't part of the first century church, the apostolic was there to serve. You know, the Bible actually says, it's the first app sock and prophetic is part of the cornerstone. So I look at that as a foundation. Well, we're in a room right now and any building, I go into number how magnificent it is, nobody peels back the laminate floor or the hardwood floors or breaks the dry wall off to see the foundational pieces. And that's really where the app is telecom provider card. They should be kind of tucked away part of the strength and structure and really not calling too much attention to themselves. That's why I've always been personally annoyed. When someone has a parcel on their business card right away, it says a red flag. I'm like, well, who's this joker.
Speaker 0 00:36:57 Well, when you introduce yourself with a title, uh, and you keep doing it around me, I'll eventually say, uh, who are you trying to convince me or youth? Um, yeah, I know that's who you are. And I honor that, but, um, that's your gift? And your gift is to surf. Um, the leveraging of the Holy spirit in Romans 12, first Corinthians 12, they're called the gifts of the Holy spirit. Now the Holy spirit came. He said not to teach us about himself, but to teach us more about Christ. So if the gifts that Christ gave are the foundational gifts, then the gifts, the Holy spirit gave should leverage the gifts the Christ gave. So if you take the gift of ministration that will leverage the episodic gifts, if you take the gift of mercy, that will leverage the pastoral gift. Uh, again, it's not a new doctrine, it's not a new theology.
Speaker 0 00:37:59 It's just simply a way to help people connect what motivates them and how that ties in to serving the local body and also ties in or should tie in, in what they do in the marketplace. When you know, TGIS, that's, that's a big deal for most people. Thank God it's Friday and today's Friday. And so they're looking for the weekend, but they tolerate Monday through Friday. They can't wait for the weekend. Well, if you're called by God, you ought to celebrate Monday as much as you do Friday, because that puts you in the wheelhouse of your ministry gift, right? You're there on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is part of a warrior mindset too, right? Absolutely way of living a way of thinking. We take ground every day or we lose ground every day. Yeah. So the Holy spirit gifts are to leverage the gifts that Christ gave. And of course, there's a lot to go through and unpack in that.
Speaker 1 00:38:59 We're going to, so you mentioned earlier this, the salesmen would be like the evangelists gift, right? Correct. So what, how would the, let's talk about those essential gifts and what they might look like in the
Speaker 0 00:39:09 Marketplace? Well, the episodic gift, because it creates the future and builds the team, uh, is in the CEO's office. If it's not happening in the CEO, the president's office, uh, if he doesn't create the future and a plan to get there, there won't be a future, right? Uh, then the gift of the profit and the teacher, you go to the HR department, nice. We have to have compliance. And if you own a business today, you have at least 11 or 12 government agencies looking over your shoulder every day. And that compliance manual is getting thicker. Uh, by the day you got to be in compliance, you're going to play some pretty heavy fines. And so they, a perfect gift keeps us in compliance and the CEO can slam his fist on the table and say, well, I'll find a way, you know, you can do that.
Speaker 0 00:40:03 But at some point you have to be in compliance or you're going to start paying some fines. The teacher is the one who teaches the people, how to create value, teach you your job. Because if you don't create value, it won't be long. They won't be handing you a check on Friday. Well, if we don't sell something goods and or services, as the only two things we sell, we sell goods, something manufactured, or we sell services or both, right? Well, you have to go to the sales and marketing department. That's where the evangelists hangs out. He creates the sense of urgency of what we sell and produce here. Right? And if he doesn't do that, well, the rest of us don't need to show up. Well, that only leaves the pastoral gift and where do they hang out? They hang out in customer service in every organization. There's two groups of customers. You have the internal customers, you can call them members. You can call them team members. You can call employees, but their customers. And if they're not happy and satisfied and fulfilled and producing the way they need to, it won't be long before the external customers who are the paying customers stop paying or look for somebody else to supply what they're looking for.
Speaker 1 00:41:17 That's an awesome parallel. I love how that works because how, how does a person, because really we opened up reading them out Proverbs, and we talked about how your gift, your gift. You have one, maybe more than one, but everybody's got at least one power powerful gift in them. Makes room for you. What does that mean? What does it mean that your gift will make room for and how do you mature in that?
Speaker 0 00:41:46 A lot of people try to make their reputation, make room for them who they know, you know, who knows, who, you know, get you in heaven everywhere else you need to be. But, um, now it only works for a little while, right? It's not about your money makes room for you. It can at times, but scripturally, it is your God given gift that he gave to you that will ultimately make room because God wants to make room for you and your gift because it fulfills the purpose. And so, uh, you know, you don't want, uh, an evangelists working in customer service because they'll promise them anything and everything and won't produce anything. And, uh, you, you, you know, um, you gotta have that gift in the right place, in the right order, in a mature vessel, delivering the gift all under the leadership of the apostolic gift. And it works well.
Speaker 1 00:42:44 Yeah. And so really the way I kind of started to understand my gifts and there's like, there's like every, a lot of different little tests out there and stuff you can take. I don't look at them as like, you know, a hundred percent this or that, but they're fun little tools to take and kind of your indicators they're indicators. Yeah. So I think kind of me coming into it all and, and my own personal journey was I learned, I learned a lot from what I w what I love to do. And I started to matching that up with the scriptures going, Oh, well, that, that probably leads back to the gift that God gave me. You know, if you can connect to some of these dots and
Speaker 0 00:43:17 The great messages of the church to the unbeliever is to help them make that connection. Why are you so successful? Well, here's why, because God gave you this gift. It's a revelation.
Speaker 1 00:43:33 And it's really simple. The Ascension gifts is the main, like thrusters, right? Like the pistons in the engine, right? There's a,
Speaker 0 00:43:40 It holds everything together. If you, if I go in and I've gone into many companies and organizations, and, and I'll listen to the leaders for an hour and within an hour, I can locate where they're having the problem. And it's always in one or more of those gifts either it's not there, or the vessel in which it resides is immature. It's not hard. And I can, uh, I can diagnose it. Now, the challenge is you gotta get past the egos and the, you know, the pride, uh, if you're going to be able to help them.
Speaker 1 00:44:22 Yeah. Well, you know, I think that today's podcast has served well at introducing, uh, the book. I love the I'm very thankful for the book. I would encourage our listeners to, uh, search the abominable snowman on Amazon, by Dr. David Robinson and get your hands on it and get into discussion. I want to do, I don't know if I'll say how many, but a good number, more podcasts on these. I think we've laid out a good introduction today. And I think this is a topic that's really resides with people. I mean, they, in, in understanding the clarity of it, knowing your gift, is it ever too late to discover your gift? Never, never. I mean, cause you might think some people might go, well, I've never thought about this, or I never thought about the clarity of it.
Speaker 0 00:45:08 It's called the talk. It's called leverage momentum impact. You know, people say, well, at my age, it's too late. Now God can make up 50 years. There's a few days you can be so redemptively. Yeah. See, it's the enemy. It says the best years you have are beyond you, behind you, you know, know the best year that you'll ever have is the year before you you'll never be any younger than you are today.
Speaker 1 00:45:39 And I, I always feel like every day that I grow old as a day, I get better. Like, I just feel it right. Like I, I'm more in tune with my purpose. I feel more clear. And, but I have a warrior mindset. It's really hard to take me out. Cause I just, I'm so gnarly. It's like the glass is always full to me and we're going to go in and win no matter what it is. It's like, this is kind of,
Speaker 0 00:45:59 I wrote in my, in my post, um, the clock for great leaders never runs up.
Speaker 1 00:46:09 Yeah. I remember my father asked me probably 15 to 17 years ago. I can't remember, but it's right in that timeframe. About 15 years ago, I took him out for steak on his birthday. I drove three, four hours to get to the town he lives in. And, and I, I took him out for steak and it was wild conversation. I don't know where he just looks at me and I wasn't expecting the question. He goes there's how do you do it? I go, what do you mean? He goes, how do you live? Your life is driven by purpose. How do you figure that stuff out? You know? So there I am a young man explaining it to my father, which is a great conversation we have.
Speaker 0 00:46:42 Yeah, absolutely. I learned from my sons all the time. Cause if you, uh, if you are a learner as disciples, a faithful following learner of Christ. And so I, I, that's why I'm a voracious reader. I read all the time. I write every day. Don't you? I write in, uh, yeah, every day. It's awesome. Um, not necessarily a book in mind, but most of my books are from things that I have written over the years. And then God says, okay, now's the time to put it in a book.
Speaker 1 00:47:16 Yeah. I got to get busy writing. Um, I got a book I want to write too, but I I'm really, really excited about we're we're these podcasts are going to go. Is there any closing thoughts you for today now?
Speaker 0 00:47:30 I just like to encourage everyone who's listening today. Uh, this is the first day of the best year of your life. Don't pass it up. Take advantage of, be sensitive to who God's going to put in your life today.
Speaker 1 00:47:46 That's right. And I remember hearing that scripture, we opened up with when I was a young guy and I thought that's pretty cool. You're a gift will make room for you. I actually put a actually put faith in that scripture. Like, it'll happen. God will make it happen. But the power of what I realized was that you actually have to cooperate with that gift. It's not just an automatic thing. And the word you put to it was mature. You know, if you stay immature and you're gifting, um, it, it probably affects the amount of room it will make for you.
Speaker 0 00:48:16 Emotional inventory is the number one problem. I don't care what organization, what business, what church, emotional inventory, the ability to handle your own emotions and your response to inventory. People who constantly challenged.
Speaker 1 00:48:34 Wow. We live in a world that needs that get a big piece of cake and put that in together.
Speaker 0 00:48:39 It's not new. Um, you know, it's been ignored. Oh yeah. Hey, we're sorry that you,
Speaker 1 00:48:47 You know, we're going to establish cry rooms and dog petty on your campuses. I mean, you're talking, you just hit like a big, massive elephant in the room, right? Like the emotional cause we're raising of a generation of babies that don't know how they're going to, they're just emotionally stunted. They, you know, strategy, right. I mean, what are they gonna do, bill like dark, you know, comfort dog rooms at your job now. I mean, I just don't get it right. Like,
Speaker 0 00:49:13 I mean, would he rather attack a nursery school or, or a bastion of warriors? Right? So a nursery school all the
Speaker 1 00:49:24 Times of a generation of babies.
Speaker 0 00:49:27 Well, they're more warriors, uh, like you Brian that are out there and they're coming to the surface.
Speaker 1 00:49:33 Yeah. This is the day and age. We're strong men, strong leaders have to arise, or we may not have the same type of beautiful nation that we've always enjoyed. So we want grease ups too, to serve in that. And kind of, as we wind this episode down, I look forward to the future ones where it's going to be a great, great time together. But as we wind this one down as always, we ask you to help be part of that launching of gray SOPs, we just got it all launched and out there. This fourth quarter, engage with the podcast like you are subscribed to it, share it, hit that little share button, send it out by email, send it out by text message, whatever way, just engage with us. Get to our website, grey sops.net. Uh, maybe buy some gear, sign up, subscribe to our email. We're going to be sending out some really powerful emails to keep you motivated and empowered. So love all of you. That's why we do this work. And until next time live upright
Speaker 0 00:50:28 <inaudible> I have my phone.
